Tell me Oppo

"Somethingwittyer likes noisy" (Somethingwittyer) 02/09/2014 at 22:07 • Filed to: None

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How stupid is having an RX-7 FC as your first car? I mean, avoid the turbo 13-B for reliability reasons, change the oil every 3000 miles, make sure the apex seals aren't shit, deal with electronics, ect. Granted money will have to be burnt, but the same could be said for any oldish car. So Oppo, I'm I still a hopeless idiot for thinking they could have an FC as a DD?

Edit: I MEANT APEX SEALS WASN'T THINKING.

Desu-San-Desu > Somethingwittyer likes noisy 02/09/2014 at 22:10

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Invest in ceramic apex seals if at all possible. They're worth the money.

abrahamd > Somethingwittyer likes noisy 02/09/2014 at 22:10

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I did it for four years. Would do it again.

Casper > Somethingwittyer likes noisy 02/09/2014 at 22:11

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They are fine. People rack up a ton of miles on them just like other cars. Just have to make allowances for the specific needs of the rotary engine. It's an 80's designed car, you will be dealing with 80's car issues. The electronics were "interesting" the parts were on the cheaper side due to the economy they were designed in, etc.

Keep oil in it, good fuel, and maintain it and it will be fine so long as it's in decent condition when you buy it. Just be prepared for the feeding and care bill, if you cut corners and break it, everyone and their uncle will be coming out of the wood work to blame it on the fact you bought a rotary.

Montalvo > Somethingwittyer likes noisy 02/09/2014 at 22:13

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I think it can be done if you have a large enough pile of money for it to eat. Probably not the ideal but an awesome DD regardless.

GhostZ > Somethingwittyer likes noisy 02/09/2014 at 22:14

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Stupid for a first car, not a bad idea for a second car or engine swap car. You should always assume you will crash your first car, I believe.

The engines can be maintained, but the difficulty is finding one that hasn't been abused and has been maintained properly. They're getting very, very rare.

KnifeKnut > GhostZ 02/09/2014 at 22:18

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You should always assume you will crash your first car, I believe.

Damn near totaled my first twice. Dirtbag Fender Mender didn't straighten out the frame first time, put the wrong damn tire on it, tried to foist off the wrong wheel on me, and didn't fix the radiator damage from the crash so I had to take it back.

beardsbynelly - Rikerbeard > Somethingwittyer likes noisy 02/09/2014 at 22:18

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sure, if you look after it. They're not a car for people who are a bit lazy with maintenance schedules.

Casper > GhostZ 02/09/2014 at 22:23

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What better to total as a first car than a not particularly remarkable car from the 80s?

Matt62687 > Somethingwittyer likes noisy 02/09/2014 at 22:30

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If you do get one...
-Check the oil often
-Don't let the engine overheat
- Learn how to deflood the rotary engine

The first two would apply to any 80s car though.

Planktron > Somethingwittyer likes noisy 02/09/2014 at 22:36

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Are we talking about a jalops first car or some millennial (forgive me) who will be more interested in when their next cell phone upgrade comes up than dropping money on an oil change? Big difference.

GhostZ > Casper 02/09/2014 at 22:39

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Not particularly remarkable car from the 80s:

The FC is entering classic territory, and has a pretty big cult following.

Casper > GhostZ 02/09/2014 at 22:41

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Yes, but is far less historically relevant than an FB/SA or FD. It wasn't a bad car, but is wasn't a great car either. It is a lot like the 280ZX era of the Z cars.

As for cult following, even Geo Metros have a cult following... probably a bigger one than FCs.

RotaryLover > Somethingwittyer likes noisy 02/09/2014 at 22:42

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N/As are quite reliable and are great as first cars imo. It will make you learn the hard way that you have to treat your car like a lady. Be prepared to find a local Rotary specialist, very important and subscribe to AAA. Then buy a clean one with history about the maintenance on paper if possible. DO NOT BUY JDM SWAP ONES, you don't know exactly who did the swap, what the engine got through and many more stuff, you could end up with electronic gremlins because of that. Do a compression test before buying the car by using this method
http://www.racingbeat.com/mazda/performa… . If it passes, then be a happy rotary owner.

Harris Lue > GhostZ 02/09/2014 at 22:58

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It's been 6 years... still haven't wrecked my first car... It's a Foxbody, thats a particularly remarkable car from the 80s. *Knocks on all of the wood*

TyFc3s-A car hating millennial > Somethingwittyer likes noisy 02/09/2014 at 23:12

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Well, ill tell you in a month.. but im not exactly the best person to ask as i work at a shop that works on rotarys and know them very well (and will also have a rebuilt ported motor)

But heres the run down. Fcs, in N/A form, are 180,000 - 200,000 mile cars. The motors are very cheap to repair and the cars really lack any other problems (other than some switches and the door handles) keep oil in it and it will do you good. The cars can be beaten hard and come back for more.

You should also learn a bit about the motors, helps with ownership, but it also is just cool. There are no Apex Rings, there are seals, they are 2-3mm tall rectangles which create a seal at the tips (apexes) of each rotor (of which there are 2)

Other than that, the cars are gorgeous, and fun, and while the miata might be a better first car, the Fc offers more power, and wont leak (unless you get a vert)

Also, if you happen to be located in the new jersey area, the shop im at just might have a fresh painted fc for sale for $2800 thats in good condition, let me know

TyFc3s-A car hating millennial > Desu-San-Desu 02/09/2014 at 23:26

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I would second that, if i didnt know that you could replace the motor with a used unit twice over for the price of iannetti ceramics, or just do a solid rebuild with a good chunk left over.. the fact is that the ceramics do not wear, but anything N/A he builds ( alittle over 200hp is going to be the world record, when im done with mine(; ) wont break any seals anyway. Ceramics aren't ideal for turbo cars, because they really have no room for error, if pre-detonation happens the seals are GONE, and i mean GONE, leaving only maybe a destroyed turbo in its wake. the black rotary aviation seals are ideal for turbo cars, as they literally dont break, they bend. and its possible to bend them back.. ive seen rotors with HOLES IN THE FACES, and those damn seals were still there.. craziest shit ive ever seen lol

of course those seals might not last very long in a DD (~50,000 miles..) but we have no experience yet lol (no one is stupid enough to drive a 800hp car on the street daily)

of course this is all absolutely moot, as this young lad will have a nice N/A with probably fresh stock seals if he rebuilds it (keep price down and they work great and last for a good time)

themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles > Somethingwittyer likes noisy 02/09/2014 at 23:30

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Do you live in a place where snow is the rule, not the exception? If so, you will hate that car as your DD. No weight over the drive wheels, wide rear tires, an engine that HATES the cold, and the already thin steel they use for japanese cars means the salt will eat away the undercarriage.

I've seen FCs on snow tires fail to make it up even gentle inclines. You've been warned.

TheD0k_2many toys 2little time > GhostZ 02/09/2014 at 23:33

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Actually my second car has been in the most accidents. Two deer have tried to commit suicide on my beautiful Miata :(

JasonStern911 > Somethingwittyer likes noisy 02/10/2014 at 00:36

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every post in here, with the one exception of suggesting an LS swap for your first car, has something to do with how to counter the unreliable nature of the rotary engine. seriously think about that. and if you're still okay with it:

1. make sure you live in an area without emission testing. the N/A 13B was probably the most reliable rotary ever made. however, it lived in an era of looser emission standards, and as a rotary loses compression, its emissions go up exponentially. so living in an emission strict state like California is that much harder.

2. make sure you don't live where it snows. the FC3S is a great car for its era and price, but it is still a rear-wheel drive car. so if it is your only means of transportation, you would have to get used to driving with reduced traction in inclement weather quickly at the risk of totalling your only means of transportation.

3. the newest FC3S is old enough to buy booze, which means it has 23+ years of wear and tear. expect at least on occasion to have to blow off your girl/friends/etc. to fix whatever decided to break.

GhostZ > Casper 02/10/2014 at 02:05

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Actually, in my experience, FBs tend to rot and fall apart (and were sold at the same time as the 280ZX, and are the closest analogue to the 280ZX) while FCs are considered rarer and were featured in more TV shows, movies, etc. and were considerably faster.

I mean, the simple fact that the FC was a huge car in Initial D gives it major drift-culture appeal, and I've seen "clean" but modified/slammed ones sell for between $8000 to $13000.

Now granted, the FD is a FAR more expensive (even when new) and revered car, but the FC is also way further ahead than the FB in my experience. I mean, they made about half as many FCs as they did FBs, and half as many FDs as they did FCs, and they were universally better and featured in more pop culture as the FC more so than any other RX-7. It's hard to beat those advantages when it comes to resale.

BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires > Somethingwittyer likes noisy 02/10/2014 at 07:39

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I'm a big proponent of buying whatever the fuck you want and making it work. My dad daily drove a Maserati 228 for four years without incident, and a Maserati 425 before that. If I posted up anywhere on the internet that I wanted to do that I'd be laughed out of the site.

Just make sure you get one that's looked after, do your preventative maintenance and read up on any potential issues and fix them before they arise (or buy a car that's already had them fixed).

Casper > GhostZ 02/10/2014 at 12:41

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Being sold at the same time means nothing (and the falling a part comes with low value/neglect, look at S30s). The reference is to the fit in the evolutionary lines. The 280ZX was the low point in Z evolution as a sports car just as the FC was in the RX-7 line. Both cars became massively over weight and larger, were given turbo versions to try to make up for it, and never we able to be as good as the originals. The ZX was the tipping point where the Z lost it's sports car heritage and slid toward GT car status. The FC was the same for the RX-7s. They became heavier, slower, and less reliable. The FD was a true turn around where they made a massive push to return to the "horse and rider" philosophy.

The reference of an FC in Initial D means nothing about the car. If anything, that proves that what popularity they have is not due to the car, but to the hype surrounding a comic, much like the AE86.

The FB was lighter and a better sports car. A GSL-SE could run the 1/4 in 15.9 where as a GXL FC was 16.5, a big step down for an "upgrade". Even the Turbo only did it in 15.1 with massive reliability issues. Pop culture means nothing other than to a small group of people who actually followed that specific genre and has nothing to do with car quality. Just because people hype 350Zs in some modern series does not mean they are anything like the great Z cars of the past.

GhostZ > Casper 02/10/2014 at 18:13

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I think our disagreement can be best summed up as:

Mechanical capability =/= resale value

I don't disagree that the FC was a heavier and (in naturally aspirated form) slower version with more luxury and technology than the FB, but my point was that the FC still commands a premium in resale, mostly due to its relative rarity compared to the FB (again, they made almost twice as many FBs as FCs).

I'm basically advocating for why the FC is still considered notable, and wouldn't be (as you stated) a "not particularly remarkable car from the 80s" and a bad idea for a first car. It's an 80s sports car, with a cult following, like the MR2, Z31, etc. Definitely still notable and definitely too expensive to warrant a junkheap first-car.

Casper > GhostZ 02/10/2014 at 18:34

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I guess I disagree about the resale value being of significance. A great condition FC brings about the same or less as a great condition FB. FCs cost more than FBs when they were sold and are newer, so selling for more than a poor condition FB doesn't say much other than it's got a few years and higher purchase price on it's side.

I have had all these cars, both an FB and FC. I also had an MR2, Z31, Z32, two S30s, an MKIII Supra, etc. The FC by far has the smallest following, and it's because a lot of RX-7 enthusiasts like cars to either side of it. The number of people who are RX-7 enthusiasts would by majority rank the cars FD, FB, FC both in order of want and significance. Some would argue the FB is more significant than the FD simply because it was the initial car that spawned the RX-7 line and competed so well against the rivals.

No one said FCs weren't decent cars. I even told him it would be fine as a DD. I just don't think in the scheme of cars it's significant enough to need to protect from use or preserve for future generations.